I know. An angle presenting a different gospel from plates by mr smith with no archeological evidence found in the us saving a different gospel does no make it. You know little of what you are commenting about. The evidence is strewn about the Guatemalan and Yucatan peninsulas. One only needs to look. The plates were commanded to be carried for many months and buried where they were in upper state NY. It says this in the book itself, which is a compilation of many authors testimony of what happened. It is becoming more and more clear that these were the pre-mayan peoples. The main reason I am disillusioned with the church is because of the corruption.
I could go on and on. The reason to be disillusioned is their own apologies. Excuse me! That was written before Mormon plates and it is different gospel altogether based on a false christ whom Mormons say is created and not the Real Christ who cheated the universe man who left his Heaven to become man and died for our sin. Col To trust in a different christ one that was created , is no christ at all.
And in the end, whoever trusts in the christ instead of the Living Chirst will still be in their sins. Which is why the correct Christ Deity not the plate man made one christ who as created Is pivotal to where you will spend eternity in heaven with God forever forgiven by Christ Deity who paid the price for our sins or hell paying you your sins yourself, without God, forever. Because the created mormon christ can not forgive sin. The mormon may spell the same but eternally different. Still sounds like you are taking it wrong. You still seem to know little of what you are talking about because what you are spewing is really confusing.
You must have gotten this stuff from some hateful evangelists. What are you talking about? The teachings of Christ in the book of mormon are almost a perfect mirror of those in the new testament.
Who told you these lies? If you would like to ask some basic questions about our beliefs, then I will answer them for you. Not confusing at all I know a lot of Mormon there lives look better cleaner than mine they are knowledgable and a lot of good works. The thing is that has nothing to do with sin how good you are. His birth He was born of a woman and by Gods Spirit.
Isaiah ; Matthew ; Luke , 34 which make Jesus able to give salvation to those who call on his name by Faith alone and not works. Works will never save anyone because works can not erase sin. And I do not disagree with your words or quotation so please tell me exactly what it is you think you are saying about mormons? Of course everyone sins. Who told you we believe otherwise? You need both. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by me.
If any man is in Christ he is a New creation Titus God gives us the desire to do good works to please Him and gratitude for what he has done for us. We will want to do good works God puts His Holy Spirit into our heart to know him. I pray that He will you insight into this. Salvation is found in no one else their is no other name by which we must be saved. This site explains it better.
That branch of my family believes they are the only Church because Joseph Smith is the only one who got the right temple plans, the right doctrines and covenants and the best testimony ever from the angel, and confirmed it all with the burning in his bosom that it was the right way. Because all the denominations around were false and displeased God so much he appeared to JS.
So if it is indeed the only church, why frequent a site not even talking about the LDS church. Seems strange, the missionaries that have come to my door tell me your Church is growing leaps and bounds, so why are you coming to a website for Church plants, that are not being done by your church. The BOM is not based on Biblical christianity, because remember JS was given the right gospel and doctrine because the current ones were lacking, right. And he had more revelation for going back to taking more than one wife, because that was what was done in ancient days, right? Even though the actual temple ceremony has NO origin in Hebrew culture but in the occult practices of ancient times, that were heathen and paganistic.
Messiah never had a brother, in Satan.
The fact is Joseph Smith had a whole different occupation, something quite contrary to ALL scripture. He created a new religion based on some obscure notions, and tried to pawn it off as the new deal. He got quite the following and it is still going. LDS build churches and perpetuate a very large real estate venture adhering to good moral principles. Jesus Christ, Messiah, came to build a Kingdom not of this world, not associated with Kolob, but to have a Bride saved by grace, by HIS shed blood, period.
Not rituals, not works, not anything that man can do gets them to the spiritual Kingdom. The Body of Christ is the Bride, the only heavenly marriage happening there. No extra planets, no need for anymore priests as He alone is our high priest. No need to create more spiritual progeny. Do you feel like you grow more spiritually by helping a stranded motorist or by looking at wrong images on the internet? I would adamantly say the former. By practicing righteousness we strengthen those spiritual muscles. If we fail to take action, the next time it will be easier to do the same.
Faith is all that is needed for salvation. Jesus died not just for original sin, but for ALL of our sin. We can only accept his offer of salvation. All of our works are but as dirty rags so that no man may boast that his salvation comes in any way from his own effort. If it were, how then did the thief on the cross go to Heaven? Either Jesus was wrong not possible or the belief that baptism would be required for the thief or anyone to go to Heaven is wrong. But back to your point, Jesus said you will know a tree by the fruit it bears. A dead tree bears no fruit. A dead faith bears no fruit.
But the act of bearing fruit doing works is not what makes the kind of tree works is not what makes a Christian , it is how they are identified. In addition to this, many people also make the mistake of thinking that all works have to be outward. This very egregiously overlooks the most important works, those of growth and change in the believer. Many of these works will not be observable at a casual glance, but only through detailed retrospection and an examination of your past vs your present self.
Faith and works go hand-in-hand as one responds in trust and obedience to God. It is obedient faith that saves. LDS go around baptizing dead corpses. The Gospel of Christ is for the living — not the dead. Once you are dead its too late to accept Christ. Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off, and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them concerning their brother. So when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary remained seated in the house. But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you.
Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this? Not what you assume….. Just to clarify, LDS do not baptize corpses. And never have. It is proxy baptism performed by the living in behalf of the dead. I agree with just me, you dont need works for salvation. Many a man have confessed on their death bed, were baptized and saved. Does that mean they dont receive the same reward? The problem is thier version of the Bible changes the words and tus the meaning of referenced verses.
You cant get through to them. No Holy Spirit dwelling on the inside of them. And no, the claim that they both draw from the same source material is not an answer. This is text that was added by the KJV translators to clarify passages that did not easily translate into English. In other words, they are additions that had to be added during the act of translation, they were not present in the original text. It tries desperately to please the political climate as far as possible. First is was sanctioned as what God intended, so the brethren needed to get more wives, then in comes the government sanctioning it illegal for impending statehood, and gee, it went away mostly.
Dud you are a clown, that is destined to an eternal he l if you do t denounce your pride, repenting of your sins to the living God that He mat extemd salvation unto you. You can perhaps infer it from the text, if you are so inclined, but there is no question that understanding is not taught in the bible, if so, will you show me where?
To the contrary He reaffirmed the teaching of one God in Mark Jesus kept dietary laws AND the sabbath before and after His resurrection, but modern Christianity uses weak verses to abandon those. The problem with this idea is that Joseph Smith himself claimed that upstate New York was the site of the climatic battle. I understand that since then, as no archaeological evidence is present, the church has revised the location to the Guatemalan and Yucatan peninsulas. The problem this presents though is that Joseph Smith made these claims based on divine revelation and was a prophet i.
However, the need for revision shows that he clearly was fallible, therefore his claim to be a prophet is shown to be false. The Bible is very clear on this for how we are supposed to test a prophet. Additionally, that is not the only instance in which Joseph Smith was wrong when claiming to speak in his role as the prophet. Or any number of other issues, claims, doctrines that the church has since had to revise. They are not of faith, they are false, they are crazy, etc. Why because if you are LDS you accept and believe and are convinced that he alone was infallible on such matters.
It is JUST that the rest of the world is hateful towards the true church, right? I challenge you to read the Book of John, chapter one. Sue, I think you lost translation somewhere. She is a Christian with LDS family members. Read the posts toward the top. And Joseph Smith tells us God came from the planet Kollob, almost spells something else in reverse. Please know this. You cannot serve GOD with your head, you serve him with your heart. Serving GOD with their heads is the main cause of division in the church today.
Serving GOD with your heart requires faith, requires love, requires grace, mercy and all other fruits of the spirit. If we, as a church, unite in serving JESUS, in spirit and in truth, then we will impact the world more effectively and our intentions, for the world to be saved, will be effective. GOD bless you all. None of us including you my friend were there but you choose to believe that. And for that matter, why are you on here trying to argue the facts using what is in our own opinions a false doctrine? I am sure you know by now that you are talking to us as if we were part of the LDS community.
None of us except for you are LDS. I know that I am not. I live with my LDS friends too. We definitely are family to each other but we are and always will be in separate churches. I will be straight forward with you and tell you right here that us Christians do not believe in the Book of Mormon. Most of us see the Mormon church as a cult and false religion. Now I personally say that you really should see your way out of this conversation since we are not going on your mormons blogs and trying to prove our point there.
My friends and I have a solid respect for each other. We agree that we all believe in God. But we also agree that we have completely different beliefs. I am a Christian and they are Mormons. And that is how it will always be. Of all the places Joseph Smith mentioned, not one trace has been found. He also mentioned items,such as swords that have not been found on this continent. His writings are so obviously a fraud, that I wonder anyone is fooled.
Grace means unmerited favor. It has nothing to do with being righteous. We are saved by Grace not by our works. When we are in Christ Jesus, we have a rudder where we know in ordinary things what is right or wrong. So in this life we will have troubles. Also we repent very quickly and go to bed forgiven in mercy.
Jesus is the only one to follow….. Jesus said…. Remember he still has a thorn in his side…True! You said…. If not check with G-d…….. No one comes to the Father except by ME…. Your Church nor your Pastor is the way…. Bless you. That hardly seems fair to anyone except your group. It is called the Fires of Faith and is freely available. It very clearly disputes your ideas that the books were handpicked and groomed to the tastes of King James.
If you are LDS then you should know that your opinions on this differ from what your church officially states…. Oh that your eyes and ears could receive the revelation that your religions serves man and NOT a Holy God. Jesus is the Head and the church is His body. What happens when the head is severed from the body? Jesus and His church are one. The church is also the bride of Christ. There is so much more. The Bible as we know it was actually determined in CE with Constatine and the leaders of the various factions of the Church.
King James was the one who got the Bible translated into the KJV as it was before all the other various translations of the Bible came to be. He only commissioned a translation of the very same books translators had been rendering in English since the beginning of the Reformation starting with Tyndale, continuing through the very popular Geneva Bible, etc.
The four gospels we have had been recognized throughout the church from very early on there is strong evidence in the second century. Some creative revisionist history being spun there. King James hand picked the books to be included huh? Do some actual historical research. What a foolish man you are, that you have placed your trust in your intellect. How sad it will be for you on the Great White Throne Judgement, if you do not denouce your pride and arrogance, falling to your needs with a broken and contrite heart, that the one who saves, may receive you into his blossom, remembering your sins no more.
You clearly have no revelation of what that scripure means. This means we judge another in light of what the Word of God says. So, you my friend stand guilty as charged. Your intellect means nothing to Jesus! Few have understood what the significance of this Scripture. People do not have a revelation of the Lord for themselves, their own revelation from the Lord about himself, without a revelation of the Lord there is no strength to stand in Him. So beautifully said. I am reading the word more, praying and listening for confirmation—that still, small voice of the Lord.
I have not given up on corporate worship. I just got tired. Too busy. Praying and trusting God for my life and the answers. I know he had planted me where I am but I just had to get away for a while. Lord help the organized church. I really am. Thank you for your insight also.
Clearly you have no idea, that you are using the scripture incorrectly and out of the proper context. John That means to judge according to His Living Word. You really should stay away from christian topics and blogs, for your ignorance testifies against you. Fortunately there is more than sufficient evidence even just in the gospels themselves.
Unfortunately your logic is foolishness in light of the Holy Scriptures. Your argument is against Jesus, not me, as I only spoke His words! Translations since then may or may not have faltered, but if you think for one minute that God was not in control of that then you have no true understanding of God. And there are books in the Bible go all the way back to Moses who, under the direction of God, wrote the first 5 books of the Old Testament. God has shown Himself all throughout the Bible, and the churches history, and into today, whither people choose to see it or not.
How do I know what I believe is true? The Holy Spirit confirms it. Am thinking of 1 John ?? But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. Same old trick, different cult. All your rightousness is as filthy menstrual rags before the Most High God. He is not like unto your old man on the planet Kolbol.
He is a consuming Fire. Even now He is coming with His Angels to bring judgement. The axe is layed unto the root. This blog would have been better suited years ago. Not to mention your article is more devisive than unifying. I feel this blog merely contributes to a growing group of Christ Followers more interested in the idea of changing the world rather then actually doing it! This is an interpretation.
For me, I see this as Christ saying, I have other sheep who do not yet know me not of this fold , but through you I will bring them into the body of Christ. And what of the baptisms for the dead, which are actually commented on in the new testament. To think as many churches do, that the billions who have lived never even having had a chance to receive the teachings of the Lord, would be damned? How silly would this be? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And also the requirement that any church of Christ would have the required callings of a prophet, apostles, seventies, bishops, elders, priests, teachers and deacons?
Will you sweep this aside as well? The answer is rather obvious from the context of the gospels. This is a central point emphasized repeatedly throughout the New Testament Acts shows us the transition, and Paul frequently explains this reality, e. He was speaking of the Gentiles. The other sheep are simply gentiles, that is all of us not the Children of Israel. We are those putting faith in Christ and of the grafted in branch.
Meaning us. Too, true. If anyone could have been a Mormon, I could have been one. Fortunately, the Lord took me away from their influence and put me into a bibe believing church. They are a seemingly nice group of people but greatly deceived by Joseph Smith. Unedited history declares what kind of man he was…a deceitful, Scripture twisting, megalomaniac. Such is the nature of hate, which we all know the root of. It is a shame so many churches feel it necessary to lash out at other faiths in such an un-christ like manner.
I remember when the Baptists showed up at one of our pageants to hold signs and protest against us. We treated them with love and rspect and even gave them food and drink. It is amazing how many of them turned their signs around and stared at the words of hatefulness they were preaching. In the face of such kindness and love they were dumbfounded and many of them left that day. Megalomaniac I think not. Do you forget the opening statement in the BOM? Please be very clear that when Christians defend our faith against that of the LDS church, we are not attacking you.
The LDS church claims that Christians do not have the full gospel and that what they do have in the Bible was corrupted as soon as it was set down in writing. The LDS church claims that Christian beliefs are wrong and that they are the result of a great apostasy. It is very dishonest of you to claim that you would never attack another persons religion or beliefs. I have long removed myself from going to church because of a couple of different reasons.
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I do not support the church of the LDS nor fully support the Christian church. In , he got the leaders of various factions of some of the branches of Christianity and together, they decided what would put into the Bible and what would be removed.
Now, I do understand that the early church wanted consistency and that some of these gospels and books did not fall in line with their dogma, the whole story is not being told. He did not form the Catholic Church- that was Theodisius. Read some actual history rather than taking the word of internet rumors and conspiracy theorists. Scripture was considered scripture long before official big wigs were around to influence the matter.
The belief is that a Greek theologian was the first to put the Bible together the way we know it today. But all agree that the Second Council of Constantinoble agreed to the books officially. Many believe that books were excluded and destroyed, but who really knows for sure? No, all do not agree that the Second Council of Constantinople agreed to the canon. That council happened in AD- long after the formation of the Roman Catholic church.
Heck, that council was long after Patrick spread the gospel to Ireland and the Celtic Church emerged. Who really knows for sure? Anyone who bothers to read actual history. Most of the notes from those councils have been preserved. Only by the Spirit of the Lord can we know what should be considered as inspired of Him or not.
There is no other way. Anything can be considered a gospel; anything can be considered as a legitimate component of the canon of Scripture, but what does God have to say? Jews went to temple. They observed holy days and feasts, and did sacrifice. They went to synagogue or at least the men did, and they learned Torah orally from an early age. Church is a newer concept, and even before Rome got involved it was nothing like what accounts for church on American soil. Apostacy is the definition of Joseph Smith…he was an apostate in every sense, which makes me chuckle…. I think it not a stretch to believe that any historical documents that supported his view would have been destroyed also.
This was the established method of the Roman Catholic church. At the beginning of this mess, someone suggested that the discussion would descend into bickering about irrelevant technicalities. And it did. This is why, since I began to think for myself, I have never felt closer to my Creator than when I was in the midst of a forest or a vast desert, deep in meditation, and usually alone. As long as there are individuals. There will be differing opinions. Americans are taught to be free thinking from early on, much of the other cultures are more conformist than those on our soil.
Fess up, I know you knew…blessings on your alone time, may you be enlightened sweetie! Do I have to write provocative articles to get a response from readers? Look it up, go to library go get books on Masons, and compare the ceremonies. Read anything written about the Book of Abraham outside church approved documents. Be bold, be brave, and look at the information outside church explanations about what kind of life Joseph Smith actually lived. And then if you want people who were like you, go read some of the stories that put your religion in context and why many have left. Stand alone and be their own deal and not try to say they are something, or present that they are something they are NOT.
That is where the conflict is, not with you personally. If the LDS church would stand alone, and say we have a different take on how to get to heaven and how to live. Joseph Smith is the basis of the religion, his dreams, his books. Most of the Christian Protestant denominations only differ on a few points. No more temple rites, no more priestly activities, ceremony. LDS follow the prophet, you sing, follow the prophet songs. Who cares about a prophet, mere mortal, too limited. I am heart sick over how many are duped, why they are duped, and how they continue to be duped.
But if you talk to those who left, or go to exmormon. The betrayal the deception really harms. Talk to the missionaries after their 2 yrs, most are so disillusioned. In the book of Revelations And I John looked up and saw a multitude of people I could not count, from every tribe and every nation……. You dont know who are true believers. Only God know that. I believe GrimEngineer was talking about the governance and organization, not necessarily the doctrine. In either case, perhaps one should not be so quick to cast the first stone.
Bible and book burning coming son! Via 3rd party statistics also. The ancient Christian churches do that too. Well, it is not the SOLE job of the preacher to pastor the flock. That is the job of the elders which he may be one of them. Secondly if the pastor preaches a mess with the Holy Spirit it is very good , and thirdly I believe a church is there to use its gifts to reach out to the people and outside and lost and the church must train them to disciple.
There are only two churches, the true and the false, Do you truly know to which church you are referring? Can you tell? Get your butt out of the pew and start teaching yourself, read your bible! As for the Apostles, they lived a harsh life and gave their life for the gospel, certainly far from Pastors of today who live off the backs of the flock living in cribs in upscale neighborhoods while single parents struggle..
Palease, wake up! I left your faulty brand of church a long time ago!! The scriptures written by the apostles taught them to take care of one another needs, and one of the churches hugest problems is they have become the pastor only church instead of a living organism they became an organisation instead.
The care one for another in the church has basically vanished out the door. The overwhelming amount of churches in America, are business ventures. Men and women attain professional degree, that they may open a church for profit. Jesus says in Jeremiah , that they went out and he did not send them. They have run with their message and prophesy, but I did not speak to them. Again, their are many false prophets who have gone out in Jesus name for profit. People think the church does not have expenses or responsibilities to the government.
Do you think all pastors just suck up all the money??? No, some pay the bills and even have to come out of their personal pockets to help the church stay alive so that the lights are on when YOU do decide to come to church. How about trying this on, go to church because you need it. Not about anything else. I personally think each church organization HQ baptist, catholic, methodist, etc should collect the offerings and ensure all in the church are taken care of — including the pastor.
There is nothing in scripture to support this teaching that the church is responsible for supporting a pastors lifestyle … it is pure pride and arrogance and misinterpretation of the scriptures. Like it or not, you are not in line with scripture, Mary. It should be the other way around, the leaders living lavishly ought to be caring and meeting specific needs of the poor … where and in what church is this occurring? Taking scripture out of its context, using it as weaponry, misinterpreting and using half truths are the tools of deception and profiting is the goal, period.
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It is both daily and expanded new books from Qiu Jin and Lu Yin to Bai Wein, who let in the file discussions of their management as nearly Eventually is the data drawn in being mathematical structures of 6th need and Nazi. Narration credits include Century 21 Bundesen, 19 Crimes augmented reality project, Corporate Sales thing.
Toy credits include tens of thousands of lines for companies including Leapfrog and Hasbro. Currently, Jeff is running his own company producing and directing all things voice-over including animation, commercials, promos, and IVR. Training and Education — B. Recent toy credits include Hatchimals and numerous gibberish monsters. Interactive credits include Apple and Google. Previous Jobs — Morning show producer and sidekick, afternoon disc jockey, production manager, creative services director.
Current Jobs — Voice actor, director, producer, casting director, marketing advisor, content producer. Studied with Del Close and Viola Spolin, two improv legends. Video game credits include Guild Wars 2 and Free Realms.
Member of the Antaeus Classical Theater Company. Voiced an entire series of monster toys in improvised gibberish. On-camera television credits includeMacGuyver and St. Current Jobs — Voice actor, on-camera actor, writer, director, improv specialist.